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My Thoughts on the Aurora, Colorado Shooting

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9:30 am
July 20, 2012


Eric – PersonalProfitability.com

Portland, OR

Member

posts 2120

As the local guy in Denver, I wanted to share my thoughts and frustrations around last night's shooting. I have been to that theater and my Dad works across the street. I know the area well.

I know it is not related to personal finance, or Narrow Bridge, but it is timely and I wanted to share it with my friends (and I include many of you on that list).

Enough with the Guns Already

11:20 am
July 20, 2012


Jason@LiveRealNow

Member

posts 727

Post edited 12:37 pm – July 20, 2012 by Jason@LiveRealNow


Getting rid of guns is an absurd impossibility.  The AK47 was designed to be manufactured in a cave with hand tools. 
  Anybody with an opposable thumb and access to a hardware store can build one.

Guns are the definition of civilization.  Before they became widespread, force was the primary method of persuasion.
  Now, it's possible for a 100 pound woman to effectively resist a rapist, or an 80 year old man to stop a 
team of home invaders.   We went from rule of might to rule of reason with the introduction of small arms.

From a purely rational standpoint, where has strict gun control ever made anyone safer? 
England's violent crime rate climbs every time they ban another self defense tool.    Canada's did, until they 
realized they spent more than a billion dollars on a registry that didn't help solve a single crime.

Germany banned guns, then killed their population.
Cambodia banned guns, then killed their population.
The Sudan banned guns: genocide.
The Congo, Ethiopia, Rwanda, Uganda, The USSR, China, Guatemala: gun bans and genocide.

The world–and human nature–hasn't changed.  Evil exists and must be stopped by good people 
with the means to stop it.

Genocide aside, 9 minutes is a phenomenal 911 response time.  How long will that be if you''ve got 
home invaders or violent muggers attacking you?

You can't rationally blame an inanimate object for the violent acts of broken people.  

You can't legitimately expect to eliminate a simple machine by legislative decree.

You can't morally hope to outlaw the only effective means of self defense for a huge segment of the population.

I'm just thankful rampage killers all seem to be idiots.  If this jackass would have brought a 
lighter and some milk jugs filled with gas, the entire theater would have died.
 
 
Edit for formatting.

12:34 pm
July 20, 2012


The Single Saver

Member

posts 689

Ditto everything Jason said. 

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9:11 pm
July 20, 2012


Funancials

Member

posts 345

People will do terrible things with guns or without them.

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7:55 am
July 21, 2012


Edward Antrobus

Fort Collins, CO

Member

posts 1008

I worked with a woman yesterday who lives near the shooter's home and whose sons had planned on going to that theater but the older got called into work for the next morning and the younger decided not to go alone.

 

While I don't see the point in the average person possessing a gun, I do subscribe to the belief that "if you outlaw guns, only outlaws will have guns."

 

Even before the shooting, I was thinking about the school shooting at Columbine High School almost a decade and a half ago. Aside from all of the pain and sadness related to the incident itself, the major issue that arose from it was that it became "acceptable" for bullied students to respond with extreme violence. There have been several copycat shootings since.

 

I think that, as a society, we have to change the narrative. Instead of highlighting stories of people getting bullied and develop serious issues, I think more work needs to be done highlighting stories of people getting bullied but overcoming it. I was bullied as a kid, but over time developed the right connections to get it to stop and grew past it. I have a friend who used to get bullied worse than me; physically bullied. He went on to join the army for the GI Bill and now works as a programmer in Oklahoma. By changing the narrative, we stop making violence an acceptable way of getting attention.

 I'm looking for editors, beta-readers, and some demographic research for my upcoming novel, Once Upon a Saturn Moon. If you like reading soft sci-fi thrillers, maybe with a touch of romance thrown in, you can find more information at http://seampublishing.com/once…..aturn-moon

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9:22 am
July 21, 2012


Budgeting in the Fun Stuff

Member

posts 3048

Jason pretty much summed up everything I was going to say.  I do not own a gun myself but I very much believe that we should all have that right.  I do not think guns are the reason people kill other people since that had been happening before guns were invented.  In my head, guns aren't the problem, people who want to kill others are the problem.

Crystal

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10:30 am
July 21, 2012


John @ Married with Debt

Illinois

Member

posts 239

I have to respectfully disagree, while commending you for having the courage to speak your mind. The problem isn't guns, however, it's people.

As humans, we must accept the fact that we aren't perfect. If you gather 1000 babies in a room, a few of them are going to grow up to be stone cold killers, rapists, pedophiles, or just plain violently mentally ill, regardless of how hard their parents try. In the past these people would have likely been culled from society by less than pleasant means, but now we are fortunate to have a (generally) humane mental health care system that can help. Unfortunately most mental health programs are underfunded, and some people slip through the cracks. And there are others who are normal on the outside and just snap. 

The point is that we can never stop this from happening. You can ban every gun and make the penalty for murder 10,000 years in prison and three death penalties, but that isn't going to eliminate murder and violence. You can't legislate happiness and rainbows, and demanding perfection from government leaves no one – liberals, conservatives, Democrats or Republicans, Independents, etc – satisfied.

We are allowing the perfect to be the enemy of the good.

We are allowing mass media to take isolated incidents and conflate them to the point of panic. Almost every single American is safe from violence every day. That is something we should be proud of. As Jason said above, yes, small arms have made it so gangs of men don't come and rape your wife and kill your family. That is a good thing. And yes we should always keep working to end violence and murder, while also recognizing the fact that this mission is impossible. 

I am saddened by the story in Colorado, but I am not scared by it. I don't feel any less safe than I felt yesterday. If we want to take an isolated incident and try to wring some sort of cultural significance from it (I hate doing it but will play along), I am more concerned about why parents had their kids at a movie theater at midnight for a very violent film. Good parenting can fix more of our social ills than demanding perfection from imperfect politicians.

An IPSOS Public Affairs poll from earlier this year showed that an overwhelming percentage of Americans support gun rights, including that 75% of people support conceal and carry of firearms. Gun ownership and gun rights is one of the few areas where most Americans agree, yet the minority who oppose fight with vigor. That is how America should be, where the minority opinion is allowed to state their case and have it be judged on the merits. But we must also recognize the nature of our republic, and democracy, where the majority governs and gets to set the rules. We must respect our system enough to accept the reality when most of our peers do, in fact, judge our ideas on their merits and reject them.

Instead of perpetrating unworkable ideas, let's have a revolution of peace and respect. Let's stop watching TV shows that vilify people and make fun of them. Let's tone down our rhetoric, and instead of saying that people deserve to be punched in the face for rational beliefs, let's work together, respecting the fact that most Americans support our unique system of gun rights.

Someone above touched on bullying. Bullying in America is an epidemic, and it's not just a problem for kids. I write more about it here. Unfortunately not enough people see bullying as a problem, because it is not uncommon to see parents cursing out sports referees or making fun of other people's children. 

Once we can get support for ending bullying and disrespect up and above the widespread support of gun rights, we will move faster towards achieving our true potential.

[sorry this turned into a blog post :) ]

MarriedWithDebt.com  

Helping married couples pay off debt and build the life they want…together.


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2:29 pm
July 24, 2012


Eric – PersonalProfitability.com

Portland, OR

Member

posts 2120

I didn't figure we would all agree, and many of you make great points. As I live here, I felt like I needed to say something. As you all know, blogs are often a first place to turn to say things. As my blogger friends, I thought I would share my thoughts.

9:07 pm
July 24, 2012


Budgeting in the Fun Stuff

Member

posts 3048

Eric, I'm sorry if I seemed attacky…I really was just trying to express a differing opinion.  I'm from Texas…so I was likely to disagree, lol.  But I totally did not want to make you feel bad.

Crystal

Yakezie Member Site: 

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3:52 am
July 25, 2012


MoneyBeagle

Member

posts 1466

That he was able to get all this stuff in just a couple of months, and a lot of it by sending away for it from online orders, there is something just not right about that.  I agree that gun control laws aren't going to solve anything, but getting the stuff to do this shouldn't be as easy as ordering something off Amazon, either.

 

Oh, and now that this is all in the news, any other crazy can now see how easy it is.

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8:10 am
July 25, 2012


Michelle (Making Sense of Cents)

Member

posts 400

I agree with what Jason said. I am not against guns at all.

8:36 am
July 25, 2012


Jason@LiveRealNow

Member

posts 727

MoneyBeagle said:

That he was able to get all this stuff in just a couple of months, and a lot of it by sending away for it from online orders, there is something just not right about that.  I agree that gun control laws aren't going to solve anything, but getting the stuff to do this shouldn't be as easy as ordering something off Amazon, either.

 

Oh, and now that this is all in the news, any other crazy can now see how easy it is.

Even the worst(and useless) "one gun a month" laws wouldn't have stopped this.   When you have months of preparation time, you can get anything.  When you are willing to break the law, it won't take months.   When you're willing to commit murder, the rest of the laws you break to get there are free.

Body armor can be made at home.  Kevlar is difficult, sewing steel plates into a jacket is not.  Guess which one is more effective?

Simply put, there is just no way to stop bad people from doing bad things when they are willing to put time and money into preparation.   It's not possible and new laws will only affect the law-abiding.

 

On a side note, contrary to what the news is saying, 6000 rounds of ammunition isn't a lot to have on hand.   On Sunday, I went through at least 500 rounds.   I've got 2500 on order right now.   I've got a friend who's circling in on his 2 millionth round fired since he started shooting competitively in the 80s.   A thousand rounds is a solid afternoon at the range with a couple of friends.

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