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7:42 am
July 5, 2011
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Glen Craig
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Hi Single Saver,
What you are saying is valid. We definitely don't want to become a group of "you can't join us." I think there's some reaction though, because Yakezie has become successful, that we are getting new sites that are jumping in, not to selflessly help others, but to get links for themselves.
Not saying that is the case here but we've been burnt a number of times now so when a site starts to portray even a little spaminess we react (please excuse me if I'm speaking for anyone when I shouldn't, I'm speculating based on my experience).
Perhaps this is a valid list we'll all be drooling over to be a part of in the near future. You may be right in that we have to be more open-minded. It may be unfortunate eagerness that prompted the request to put a badge up in a mass email. Mistakes are made by all of us.
I would have liked to see the list as something put together without registering and without a mass email about it mentioning putting a badge up. I'd also like to see their Yakezie badge point to the correct site page. These are my thoughts. If there are those out there that like the list then by all means make you own informed decision and join.
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8:31 am
July 5, 2011
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MyJourneytoMillions
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The Single Saver said:
Why is this becoming such a big blow up? If you don't want to be ranked in Harriet's system then don't register and don't display a badge. It isn't as if anyone is being forced to join. To actually request in big bold letters that everyone not partake in a Yakezie Challenger's site seems a little bully-ish to me. As a challenger who has taken part in blog swaps, etc., it seems like Harriet deserves a little more kindness and respect.
I am not singling out any one blogger here – this is just a general observation – but in the last month or two I have seen several "subtle" negative comments made by a few members about "yakezie challengers." As a fellow challenger, it hasn't given me a warm fuzzy feeling. As a whole, the group here has been wonderful and supportive so I have ignored those feelings for the most part. But, it concerns me that as the group grows it could get too much of a snooty vibe. I think everyone needs to remember that they were once a Challenger, themselves. Remember the days when you were super-enthusiastic about growing your sites and blogging empires? Sure, some Challengers overstep at times, but isn't it usually just a case of innocence and excitement taking over? The thing that attracted me to Yakezie was the "selfishly helping others" mentality… not the "members only" mentality.
SS,
The previous two bloggers basically summed up what I was saying (probably in a much more polite way lol). I don't think I was being "bully-ish" but rather just warning new bloggers that I don't believe (yes, I can be wrong) this list was created to "selflessly to help others."
This list was created to collect names (no registration should have been required to collect that public info) and have people brag about their ranking with a link back.
Harriet seems really nice, and their posts are generally pretty good. Just be wary that their home page is a bankrate-like comparison affiliate machine. Just take a look at it. This doesn't make it good or bad…just is what it is.
Again, I am not trying to be snobby or anything just trying to warn.
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8:48 am
July 5, 2011
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The Single Saver
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Hi Craig. Thanks for the response. I can understand reacting against spam. And I can also understand your concerns with the site in question. For the record, I haven't joined but it isn't for any reason other than I have been too busy with a family emergency to do much of anything. I agree with your last sentence in that if you want to join, great, and if not, that's okay too.
I appreciate the fact that we can have these types of discussions on Yakezie where a debate does not turn into a war. :)
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9:51 am
July 5, 2011
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MoneyIsTheRoot
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Not that I feel everyone should have to explain themselves based on accusations(please dont take that word harshly)…but I would like to see Harriet chime in on this issue, if only to put this issue to rest.
I suspect the answer is going to be that they don't require the badge, which is true, and I understand isn't sufficient enough to address some peoples concerns…in which case we may just have to give it time. I'm merely a challenger myself, and I do feel that as a full fledged member you have put in your time and dues, and are allowed more room to question those coming in. At the same time, I'd like to see a little more leniency as well… it seems to me there are a few business oriented sites spamming their way around our message boards that we should be more concerned about…I wont give names, but the comments are often misspelled, and the words are just not in a cohesive order lol… kind of a heads up for an "english" speaking blogger who writes articles each week.
Harriet…any specific retort/comments to what some of the members have questioned?
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10:47 am
July 5, 2011
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The Saved Quarter
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Not having a link back doesn't change my main concern: a ranking of Yakezie members/challengers being maintained by a business site that calling itself, and not even linking back to Yakezie except to a forum post, which I feel blurs the line between corporate and personal blogs and dilutes the Yakezie brand. It doesn't come across to me as "selflessly helping others," and perhaps that's because I've seen this in the group before. I had the CCC badge when I first joined and Sam asked me to remove it because it wasn't official Yakezie. I see this as the same thing.
Next in line in my concern is that it's by someone who hasn't completed the challenge. This isn't because I'm anti-challenger – I'm definitely pro-challenger and have been very encouraging of blogs in the challenge! – but because a challenger doesn't have access to the member areas to know what's going on behind the scenes here at Yakezie.
Money Is The Root – There is also a lot of talk about the spammy blogs coming in and it is being addressed as well. It's definitely a concern for members and challengers! We want to have a group that is inclusive and welcoming to new challengers, but we don't want scammers and corporate blogs coming in and changing our group's culture and legitimacy.
I also don't think that "Sam doesn't care" is a fair representation of what he's said here so far. From the other thread:
Financial Samurai said:
We've spent almost two years building this Network from the ground up & it is imperative there is no dilution of our brand and compromise of our Network in general. We have encountered numerous people who have joined the Challenge who ultimately have ulterior motives, so we need to safeguard our Network. You wouldn't believe how many unscrupulous encounters we've had over the years! Once Challengers get to the Members stage, it will become more clear.
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4:10 am
July 6, 2011
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Harri @ TotallyMoney
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Hi All,
This is Henry again, Harriet is still away for the week on a
boat without any internet access, so I will try my best to answer all your questions. We
are a commercial site that has been blogging about personal finance for the
last 3 years. At the moment the commercial and blogging part of our sites are
very separate, we never promote or incentivise any of our products in our blog
posts and there is a strict line between them. The plan is to build up a large
UK personal finance site and we are currently redesigning the site to make the
blogging the major component rather which is why we are working quite hard at
improving our blog.
The badge was always optional, it would be great if you added it, but that is
as far as it goes. As for registration, I thought it would be positive rather
than a negative. It gives you complete control over your information,
description, URL and it even means that you can remove your site from the list.
Seemed like a good way to go as it gives you more power rather than less. We have had some feedback that people are uncomfortable with it. In the
future we could add a way to add your site without registering, but is seems a
worse way to go. I would much prefer to get people to sign up rather than us
just adding whoever we feel like. It is definitely something we will think
about and we will try to add the option.
The Yakezie badge on our site pointing to the wrong page was just one of those
odd things that happens. I must have copied the wrong link URL onto the badge
and it still, it has been fixed now that is was brought to my attention.
As for joining the Yakezie network Harriet probably knows more about it than I
do (I am more the technical side of things). I don’t know what goes on in the members
section, but the way I see it is as an outsider is a group of very active
bloggers that try to help each other out. It seems like something that is a good fit
for us. We don’t want to just take from the community we would like to put
something back in. There is an element of self-interest about it as with most
bloggers, but it certainly isn’t cynical. Maybe becoming a Yakezie isn’t the
right thing for us, but I do think we can join in within the forum and the
wider community.
We don’t require anything if you sign up to the list, you just get a link from
us and possibly some traffic in the future. Hopefully over time we will show that we do have something to add.
I will be keep popping into the forum, so feel free to keep asking questions.
Thanks.
Henry,
P.S I am not Harriet, she would have been a lot better at expressing this.
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10:13 am
July 6, 2011
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Financial Samurai
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Post edited 12:47 pm – July 8, 2011 by Financial Samurai
Hi Evan and All,
There's a pretty easy way to go about thinking about this.
1) If Harriet/Henry are personal finance bloggers who created this on their own, this is a terrific effort. It took Chris and I an eternity to come up with an equitable system that has a strong framework to reward a meritocracy. We did a ton of debugging in the process as well, and there still are some bugs to sort out.
2) If Harriet and Henry's list was funded by a larger entity/corporation which is related to media, online advertising, etc, this is something different. If an advertising agency is crafty enough, what they would do is join the Yakezie Challenge, build a list and brand it as a Yakezie Challenger list of some sort, get everybody to sign up with low barriers to entry to get mass, and then market the list with their ad agency. The problem is, the Yakezie is ours not anybody who wants to brand it as theirs.
I haven't heard back from Harriet and Henry on my question yet, but hopefully they will respond with their position. At the end of the day, anybody can do what they want to do, just don't infringe on other people's efforts. We are free to partake in anything and say anything. There could very well be positive synergies involved with this new list and Yakezie. We just need to do it the right way.
If there is ever any a question or hesitation about something you're asked to do, the solution is to simply understand what is the ultimate purpose. Let's be vigilant in protecting our house and hope for the positive intent of everybody who shows interest. If you are a Challenger now, you will most certainly want to safeguard the Network once you become a Member, especially if put in tons of effort during the 6-month period.
Thanks,
Sam
PS Harriet has always been very courteous and kind in our correspondence. Just waiting for an answer to the above question.
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Regards,
Sam
Financial Samurai - Helping you achieve financial freedom sooner, rather than later.
Yakezie Network Founder
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10:36 pm
July 11, 2011
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Buy Like Buffett
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I didn't know that Crystal had sold the site. Did you get tired of dealing with it?
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9:54 am
July 12, 2011
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Harri @ TotallyMoney
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Post edited 9:56 am – July 12, 2011 by Harri @ TotallyMoney
Hi all,
Oh dear I went away on holiday at the wrong time. HUGE apologies. I should have thought better than firing off a few emails before I (literally) set sail. Oh dear me. Big thanks to those who've been supportive (thanks for the courteous comment Sam!) And to those who have reservations, I can understand and I just hope we can clear things up.
I really hope that Henry's post above (cheers Henry!!) has cleared up a few issues here. To add a few more points to clear up some other bits…
2) If Harriet and Henry's list was funded by a larger entity/corporation which is related to media, online advertising, etc, this is something different. If an advertising agency is crafty enough, what they would do is join the Yakezie Challenge, build a list and brand it as a Yakezie Challenger list of some sort, get everybody to sign up with low barriers to entry to get mass, and then market the list with their ad agency. The problem is, the Yakezie is ours not anybody who wants to brand it as theirs.
Please let me reassure you this isn't the intention AT ALL. Yakezie is brilliant. I personally really, really enjoy engaging here and being part of a community. Henry's hit the nail on the head here- yes we'd like to get a bit better known (I mean- we're all bloggers here, who wouldn't, eh?!) and yes we'd like to get some great American and Canadian sites in front of our British readers, but undermining someone else's efforts and pilfering their list for advertising? Absolutely not. Sam is that the question you'd like me to answer? Please do let me know if that's not it.
Incidentally for those of you who weren't privvy to my emails with Sam a little while back, our list initially started out with Yakezie wording, purely because we wanted to make it exclusive to the network. Actually that was a mistake (seriously my bad) and risked causing confusion between lists, brand and criteria for rewards. Sam and I both agreed that it would be far better if we steered clear of doing anything that could jeopardise the Yakezie network, its members, its challengers and its brand. We're 100% behind this network and our list isn't meant to rival it at all. It's a tool for you, a link to your blog and a means through which we can showcase PF talent to British readers whilst getting better known amongst fellow PF bloggers.
I believe there's been an issue over the URL I sent in the emails. It's been considered 'shady' because the feeling was I should have sent out the url to our commercial site 'www.totallymoney.com' rather than our blogging arm '.com/blogs'. I'm guessing this means it seems weird or subversive that the main homepage and blogs homepage aren't combined. Funny you should raise it because it's a big bugbear of mine!! It reflects the fact that the two are completely different and independent entities, but I agree it looks very weird. Trust me- I'm figuring out a way of marrying the two, whilst maintaining the integrity of the blog content.
If you've got any further questions, comments or so on please, please drop me an email (totallymoney@ymail.com) and I'll get back to you asap.
I hope you're all having a great week.
Best wishes,
Harri
p.s. Point taken on the Yakezie link, Evan. I'll fix that up now and get it redirected to the Yakezie homepage.
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10:04 am
July 12, 2011
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Sustainable PF
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I haven't heard/read the term "bugbear" since long long ago when I played Dungeons and Dragons. Well played! :)
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11:04 am
July 12, 2011
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Harri @ TotallyMoney
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Sustainable PF said:
I haven't heard/read the term "bugbear" since long long ago when I played Dungeons and Dragons. Well played! :)
Let's bring it back!! We could see how many of us can wangle it into a blog post!
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6:15 pm
July 15, 2011
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Kay Lynn Akers
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Harri,
I appreciate your graciousness in light of our suspicions. Protecting the Yakezie brand is important to all of us and I, for one, wasn't sure who you were.
Thanks so much for all your comments at my site.
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8:21 pm
July 15, 2011
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Budgeting in the Fun Stuff
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Buy Like Buffett said:
I didn't know that Crystal had sold the site. Did you get tired of dealing with it?
No, I was just made an offer I couldn't refuse. Henry and Harriet have kept me on to manage it (thank you both!). It was announced about 6 weeks ago in the Totally Money Blog Carnival thread I had been using.
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8:56 am
July 16, 2011
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Barbara Friedberg
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Just a quick note to say, thanks for dealing with a potentially cantacerous situation honestly and above board. I appreciated all the info in the thread and would also like to thank them for comments on my site!!! ESpeccially during my transition.
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8:08 am
July 17, 2011
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Financial Samurai
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Hi Harriet,
Thanks for your response. Sure, please answer whether the effort to create the list was funded by you (and Henry) personally, or by your ad agency or larger organization. Just want to understand more where you are coming from, as this is one of the roots of the situation. We are having a internal debate regarding allowing corporate/hybrid bloggers as well.
Regards, Sam
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Regards,
Sam
Financial Samurai - Helping you achieve financial freedom sooner, rather than later.
Yakezie Network Founder
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7:03 am
July 18, 2011
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Harri @ TotallyMoney
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Post edited 7:08 am – July 18, 2011 by Harri @ TotallyMoney
Hi all,
Big thanks once again to all of you who have been so lovely
in your comments. It means an awful lot to hear such lovely things. Barb I hope
the move (and being internet-less!) went very smoothly!
Sam- huge apologies for not answering your question first
time round. Just to clarify- Henry and I are employed by a financial services agency
called Media Ingenuity and the TotallyMoney website belongs to the agency. The
company generates revenue by directing consumers to landing pages which offer
financial comparison services (mortgage brokers, for example). As such our
revenue model is completely different to Yakezie. As much as this model works,
the company’s aim is to build up a publishing arm of completely independent,
really useful financial information (I’ve mentioned before that we’re very
short of useful finance resources over here in the UK!) The idea being that
TotallyMoney becomes a great destination for (primarily but not exclusively)
Brits who are on the look-out for great money saving and career tips.
Information is 100% unsponsored with absolutely no affiliations to our clients.
TotallyMoney blogs is also funded by Media Ingenuity. Both
Henry and I work for (and are paid by) Media Ingenuity, and given that Henry
was the brains behind building the list (he's a genius) I guess you could say the agency funded
it. I can completely understand scepticism surrounding corporate and hybrid
blogs. Stereotypically corporate blogs, at least in my view, smack of
self-promotion and product pushing. Yes we want to raise our profile (we’re all
bloggers here- who wouldn’t!!), but we’re most definitely not about peddling
products or scoring nebulous link points. We’re all about building a valuable,
independent go-to resource, being an active and supportive member of a
community and showcasing the best PF talent.
I’m sorry (firstly for this lengthy essay!!) and secondly if
this opens up a whole other can of worms. I can understand why there is an
on-going debate and I just hope that the type of content we produce and our
engagement with other bloggers can allay some fears and go some way to showing
we’re not evil pawns in another crafty corporate. Trust me- I wouldn’t work
here otherwise!
All the best,
Harri
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